When is a tackler not a tackler?

Hi,

At 72:45 did George North not contravene law 15.6(c) and thus a penalty should have been given against Wales before Mike Brown was pinged for holding on? North was clearly part of the tackle but did not go to ground himself and so should have had to re-enter through the tackle gate to attempt to play the ball. Instead, he stops Brown from being able to place the ball while also blocking the England players from clearing out.
"Players in opposition to the ball carrier who remain on their feet who bring the ball carrier to ground so that the player is tackled must release the ball and the ball carrier. Those players may then play the ball providing they are on their feet and do so from behind the ball and from directly behind the tackled player or a tackler closest to those players’ goal line."

Thanks,

Grant

Hi Grant

I haven't been able to find the incident you are referring to, so I am going on your description only, with the caveat that the referee at the time may have seen it differently.

If a player is holding a ball carrier who is then tackled (held and brought to ground), but that player does not go to ground himself (a quick knee to the floor is enough to have him deemed as gone to ground), then that player is not a tackler under law.  So we could conceivably have a tackle without a tackler.  This person is normally known as a tackle assist.

Whereas a tackler can release, get to his feet, and then play the ball from any direction; you are correct that a tackle assist cannot play the ball from any direction.  The tackle assist must play the ball from his own side (see below).

This is however a very dynamic area of the game, that changes and evolves very quickly.  How you saw it and how the referee saw it may not be the same.  But as you describe it, you are correct in your thinking.

Law 15.6 (c)

Players in opposition to the ball carrier who remain on their feet who bring the ball carrier to ground so that the player is tackled must release the ball and the ball carrier. Those players may then play the ball providing they are on their feet and do so from behind the ball and from directly behind the tackled player or a tackler closest to those players’ goal line.

Regards
The Rugby Ref

John Lacey (Japan v Scotland)

I confess to not being totally au fait with all the laws of rugby union. I was however totally perplexed by a decision Mr. Lacey made near the end of the Japan match. A Scotland back attempted to kick clear from the in goal area, but the ball rebounded from a Japanese player and went dead.The decision was a scrum 5 with put in going to Japan!?

Was this correct?

Roy 

Hi Roy

Yes this was correct.  When the ball goes dead in in-goal, the main thing is not who made it dead, but who put or made the ball to go into in-goal.

If the attacking team causes the ball to go into in-goal and the ball is then made dead, it's normally a 22 drop out.
If the defending team causes the ball to go into in-goal and the ball then goes dead, it's an attacking scrum 5.

In the scenario you mention Scotland took the ball back into their own in-goal from a ruck I believe. The charge down happened in-goal and the ball went dead, so as Scotland took the ball into in-goal a scrum 5 to Japan was the correct decision.

Had the kick left in-goal and then been charged down by Japan, the charge down would have sent the ball back into in-goal, so then we would be looking at a 22 drop out if the ball went dead.

So to summarise, it's who puts the ball into in-goal that counts.  Not who makes it dead.

Thanks for the question, its a popular misconception.
The Rugby Ref

The Role of the Assistant Referee (AR) and the Television Match Official (TMO)

I hope a simple question, if either the assistant referee or the TMO suspected that England ‘sheared off’ in the maul and that Peyper should not have awarded the (penalty) try because of this, are they entitled under the TMO protocol in the world cup to request a review.  It was within two phases of the try being scored. 

Many thanks

Andy

Hi Andy

Let's look at the relevant Laws.  The pertinent bits are at 6.A.7 (b) (iv) and (c)

 6.A.6 REFEREE ALTERING A DECISION

The referee may alter a decision when a touch judge has raised the flag to signal touch.The referee may alter a decision when an assistant referee has raised the flag to signal touch or an act of foul play.

6.A.7 REFEREE CONSULTING WITH OTHERS

(a) The referee may consult with assistant referees about matters relating to their duties, the Law relating to foul play or timekeeping and may request assistance related to otheraspects of the referee’s duties including the adjudication of offside.

(b) A match organiser may appoint an official known as a Television Match Official (TMO) who uses technological devices to clarify situations relating to;

(i) When there is doubt as to whether a ball has been grounded in in-goal for a score or a touchdown.

(ii) Where there is doubt as to whether a kick at goal has been successful.

(iii) Where there is doubt as to whether players were in touch or touch in goal beforegrounding the ball in in-goal or the ball has been made dead.

(iv) Where match officials believe an offence or infringement may have occurred in the field of play leading to a try or preventing a try.

(v) Reviewing situations where match officials believe foul play may have occurred.

(vi) Clarifying sanctions required for acts of foul play.

(c) Any of the match officials including the TMO may recommend a review by the TMO. The reviews will take place in accordance with the TMO protocol in place at the time which will be available at laws.worldrugby.org.

So the simple answer is 'yes' they are entitled.

You may also like to look at the TMO protocol in place for the World Cup 2015 which is available from this article: http://www.rugbyworldcup.com/news/96575

Regards
The Rugby Ref

Ball travelling 10m at the kick-off.

Law 13.5 states ‘If the ball reaches the opponents’ 10 metre line or reaches the 10 metre line and is blown back, play continues’ 

Can you clarify for me if the ball has to reach the 10 metre line (at least) on the full or can it bounce short and still reach the 10 metre line for play to continue. 

This query came up at a game I was watching at the weekend with different interpretations of the law from ostensibly experienced past players. 

Cheers Steve

Hi Steve

This is a common question.  The ball just has to reach the 10m line (touch it or cross it). It makes no difference how it got there.  Indeed it is possible for a kick off to be a drop-kick grubber-kick and just bobble along the ground to the 10m line.  Or as you say it can bounce once, or go over on the full.

Thanks for the question
The Rugby Ref

A couple of interesting questions on kicks at goal.

Q1..We often see long range penalty kicks, just clear or bounce off the bar. Are a defending team allowed to use their “line out skills” to lift a player in the same way they do when receiving kick offs, to possibly catch the ball which would otherwise have passed over the bar and accrue 3 points. Because these kicks are from distance they could stand legally with their hands by their sides until the kicker has struck the ball, but would then have adequate time to form up to lift and achieve adequate height to prevent a score. If there is no law one could almost imagine scrum halves being launched like circus acrobats to “save” goals 15ft from the ground.

Q2..Also once a kicker has nominated to “go for goal” from a penalty, who judges whether he makes a genuine attempt at goal. For example penalty given centre of pitch 30 metres out, defending side form up narrowly beneath posts expecting the kick to be converted or ball to go dead. Kicker completely hooks the ball out towards the wing which is picked up by an attacking player wide on the wing coming from an onside position to pick up the ball and score a try wide out. He may have made a genuine attempt at goal, he may be a very astute player who recognized the opposition had “gone to sleep” and “faked” the shot at goal. Is the try awarded and if not what law applies to negate it.

I look forward to your reply.

Thanks and best regards

Patrick

Hi Patrick, really interesting questions.

Q1.  The answer to this question is in the law book, but not in the most obvious place.

Law 9.  Method of scoring

9.A.2 Kick at goal - special circumstances

(d) Any player who touches the ball in an attempt to prevent a penalty goal being scored is illegally touching the ball.Sanction: Penalty kick

Q2. Another interesting question. To answer the first part "who judges whether he makes a genuine attempt at goal?" Well the answer to that is simple, The Referee is the sole judge.

Law 6.A.4 The duties of the referee in the playing enclosure(a) The referee is the sole judge of fact and of Law during a match. The referee must apply fairly all the Laws of the Game in every match.

To answer the second part, "is the try awarded" we go back to law 9, Method of Scoring.

9.A.2 Kick at goal - special circumstances

(a) If after the ball is kicked, it touches the ground or any team-mate of the kicker, a goal cannot be scored.

So no.  The try isn't awarded.

Thanks for some great questions Patrick.
The Rugby Ref

Rugby World Cup Law Questions

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More stud questions........

Hi, I was wondering if any stud formations are allowed or if they are specific as I am size 17 and it is near impossible to find rugby boots in my size. American football boots with the single front toe stud are available in my size but I have heard on many sites that they are illegal! Also some normal football boots are occasionally available but only with blades and as I am a second row they would not be as easy to get a grip in scrums. However at this stage with my old pair wearing away I would take anything I can get! Thanks Oliver

Hi Oliver

There used to be a law (4.4(i)), up until 2014, that banned a single toe stud on boots.  Following a trial with one specific design of boot that boots that contained an offset single toe stud, the law on single toe studs was completely removed, and is no longer listed in the law book under "banned items of clothing".

All forms of blades are legal providing they are not sharp or abrasive.

The Rugby Ref

Missing Studs

Hi please could you advise what is the correct thing to do if you check the players studs and some are missing.

Many thanks Neil

Hi Neil

If a player is missing one stud, advise them to replace it before the game starts.  However The Rugby Ref wouldn't stop a player from taking part if they were missing one stud.  Do check though that the hole for the stud hasn't become burred and sharp.

If a player is missing lots of studs that would be totally different, especially if they are a forward, because that inhibits their ability to keep their footing in the scrums.  It has now become a safety issue.

The Rugby Ref always takes the studs off his old boots and keep them in his kit bag.  He hands them out to players if needed.

Regards
The Rugby Ref